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Miss AJ's avatar

I wish ppl would pour their energy into helping ppl with long covid instead of complaining about gain of function. Like, help me gain my function back🫤😂I went from 70.3 mile triathlon training to the ER for EKG’s and no one is talking about that. 7 million Americans are suffering and you are stuck on gof?

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notacc's avatar

Steven, you wrote:

"What would it take, they wondered, to turn the bird flu into a human flu? They decided to give it a try, and they announced their plans to the world. Then, just a few months later, they published results (in the journal Nature), showing that they had succeeded, using a bird flu called H7N9."

But your statement is wrong, for many reasons, as clearly shown by even a cursory reading of the paper you are linking to:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12476#Abs3

1. The primary experiment performed was testing two human isolates for transmissability in ferrets. These are natural viruses that have already infected humans. This is not gain of function.

2. Three mutations (N123D and N149D and M523I) were then tested in these isolates, and in all three cases, phenotypes either were unchanged or had a negative impact on stability. Therefore, these experiments were losses of function, not gain.

3. Therefore it is flatly incorrect to say as you have that "they had succeeded", because in this work, the virus is never altered to become more transmissable, stable, or more pathogenic, only less so.

4. To quote: "Fortunately, additional changes required to, for example, further tune receptor preference, lower the pH for HA fusion, and increase HA stability, may be needed for the A(H7N9) viruses to transmit efficiently in mammals18,20"

5. You ask "Why did they do this?". The scientists tell us this, but you do not appear to approach this question with any seriousness or intellectual honesty. The actual answer was: because these experiments can tell us which mutations to track in new clinical cases, and can inform when a virus might be on the verge of spillover.

Next, You attempt to connect the end of NIH's moratorium on Gain of Function to research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the origins of COVID-19. But this is flatly straight out wrong for so many reasons that it is actually rather hard to count them all:

1. The NIH's moratorium only applied to viruses already known to be human pathogens, like SARS-CoV, that infected humans. It did not apply to work on SARS-related bat coronaviruses, and it was not supposed to. That's why Shi Zheng-Li's lab was doing plenty of work on bat coronavirus genetics during the moratorium itself: https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1006698

2. Scientific research on the genetics of bat sarbecoviruses has been ongoing in China since the SARS epidemic in 2003 which greatly impacted that country. The NIH moratorium from 2014-2017 has nothing to do with it.

3. There is no NIH grant or project that directly funded work that could have contributed to the emergence of COVID-19 at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The grants that Dr. Shi's group received are all public, as as their progress reports now, and none of the work proposed isolating and performing gain of function genetic experiments in novel sarbecoviruses, only experiments using existing viral backbones. You can, as others have done, argue that the lab pursued other unknown projects at the same time using other funding sources, but the fact is, their grants and progress reports do not describe an avenue of research that could have ever led to the emergence of SARS-CoV-2.

4. There is an enormous amount of evidence that Dr. Shi's group did not have a progenitor virus to COVID-19, let alone one that they performed genetics on and that spilled into the human population. The lab members tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in 2020. The lab members went to international conferences in December 2019. International researchers were working with the lab at the time in 2020, and saw no evidence of any laboratory incidents. The lab shared their sarbecovirus viral sequences in 2018 and again in 2019, before there was any reason to hide a particular virus, and they did not have SARS-CoV-2.

5. There is also an enormous amount of scientific evidence that SARS-CoV-2 emerged in the human population via the wildlife trade, as SARS-CoV-1 did. please see the scientific papers on the topic.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(24)00901-2

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)00991-0

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.04.05.647275v1

My ask for you, and for anyone concerned about the risks of gain of function research is this: if it is important, it is important enough to not make up a fairy tale about the origin of the pandemic. It is important enough to not lie or mislead people about. It is important enough to be honest about the reality that SARS-CoV-2 was a pandemic started by a natural zoonosis. If you cannot treat the subject with enough importance to be academically honest about these things, then I don't really see why I should trust your opinion on the topic as a whole.

If the negative risks from Gain of Function experiments are indeed important, then the topic is also worth our close attention, careful research, and scientific and intellectual honesty. You have clearly afforded none of these in your contributions on the topic, which appear cursory and lazy, as the post above. Therefore it is hard to believe that you yourself take the issue particularly seriously.

I agree, as do almost all virologists and scientists, that we should not unnecessarily create infectious viruses in the lab that would be expected to be more infectious or transmissible. But evaluating experiments on this requires expertise and careful consideration of the context, not laziness.

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